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<  Mutant X  ~  are we all cosmic puppets? are Adam and Brennan victims?

Go for Wand
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:31 pm Reply with quote
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Are we all cosmic puppets?

Is Brennan a victim of the writers and the cruel judgment of people who have never troubled to understand the deep inner thoughts of those driven to rob banks and steal cars?

Is Adam cruelly used --a victim-- by a corporation--the smartest man in the world is unaware of the purposes of the project he directs, budgets, and develops? Should we strive to understand the soul of this altruistic paragon who only wanted to help sick children and never got around to figuring out what was happening in the work groups he directed?

Is everything someone else's fault?
Blackpanther
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:08 pm Reply with quote
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[color=indigo]The fact that someone is a bank robber doesn't make them stupid or incapable of thought and feelings. You can't say the writer's didn't understand Brennan, he was created by the writers. The fact taht he is maybe misunderstood by someone (anone: fans, writers, other MX characters) doesn't treally make robbing banks fair either.

Same goes for Adam, but everyone makes mistakes, it is only human. Maye he refused to see the signs, maybe he was too young to realize the implications of his work. It's not necesarily something you can blame on one person and one person alone.

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Go for Wand
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:26 pm Reply with quote
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Quote:
Blackpanther wrote:
[color=indigo]The fact that someone is a bank robber doesn't make them stupid or incapable of thought and feelings. You can't say the writer's didn't understand Brennan, he was created by the writers. The fact taht he is maybe misunderstood by someone (anone: fans, writers, other MX characters) doesn't treally make robbing banks fair either.


Actually, most criminals are stupid, and we see Brennan's stupidity in the first episode when he very stupidly takes a very visible, very stolen car out onto public streets. Cops look for drivers who don't match what they are driving. Stupid, stupid, stupid. He could have been pulled over, and trashed the bank robbing scheme.

Of course criminals have feelings--usually limited to themselves, since they tend to see other people as convenient prey animals.

If you watch the interviews with the people who made MX, they really do not understand what they have created in Brennan. A bunch of middle-aged guys hatched out Thug Lite, a suburban middle class notion of street criminal and studly wish fulfillment when they hatched Brennan.

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Same goes for Adam, but everyone makes mistakes, it is only human. Maye he refused to see the signs, maybe he was too young to realize the implications of his work. It's not necesarily something you can blame on one person and one person alone.


If he didn't understand the implications of his work, he was simply inept. If he refused to see what was going on, he was incompetent, since he was working with human beings and tampering with their lives.

Adam was in charge. If you are in charge, YOU are responsible for what goes on on your watch. There is simply no possible way over 1000 people were created and Adam just didn't know what he was doing. Adults don't have the option of whining, "Waaaaaaaaaaaaah, I made a mistake!"

We've seen him lie about other things. Why not about his responsibility?
PsiGen
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:30 pm Reply with quote
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Okay - neither were victims but Brennan isnt stupid either. And we know he's been inside before, for petty crime. However thats a necessary element to the character. Episode One does show Brennan up as an arrogant, look out for no1 kind of guy, but thats because as the seasons progress... he grows up a little, learns how to take responsibility and live his life - even look out for the little guy.
He was shown up like he was in the first episode, so followers of the series could see the changes that the character undergoes to get where he's at in the final episode of Mutant X. The guy in charge.

As for Adam - yeah he knew what could be done with his work. And he never lied per se. He just didnt answer all the questions not put to him. At the end of the day whats done was done. And not accept responsibility? Then what's he doing with Mutant X? Why's he continuing to look out for New Mutants, stabilise them? If he wasnt one who accepted liability, then he'd have never have left Genomex. If he was someone who thought it was okay to pin the blame on someone else, he'd have never have left Genomex. After all why leave, when you can just point a finger at Genomex and say 'Its all his fault!" He didnt do that.

We all have a past. But its what you do in the future that makes the difference. We all have capacity for change, for maturity, and for growth.

However if you want more on a similar viewpoint - theres always the Masonesque board.
I look forward to reading more from you here as well. Very nice debate that. Laters!

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Go for Wand
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:30 pm Reply with quote
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PsiGen wrote:
Okay - neither were victims but Brennan isnt stupid either.


Brennan is as stupid as a box of rubber bands. He doesn't learn. He's careless of the safety of others. He's unreliable. Knowing how to hotwire a car is not evidence of intelligence.

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And we know he's been inside before, for petty crime. However thats a necessary element to the character.


That was NEVER developed. Brennan remains a low-level thug, without regrets.

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Episode One does show Brennan up as an arrogant, look out for no1 kind of guy, but thats because as the seasons progress... he grows up a little, learns how to take responsibility and live his life - even look out for the little guy.


Wishful thinking. Mostly he goes along with the others when it suits him.

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He was shown up like he was in the first episode, so followers of the series could see the changes that the character undergoes to get where he's at in the final episode of Mutant X. The guy in charge.


More wishful thinking. They were all lost souls at the end.

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As for Adam - yeah he knew what could be done with his work. And he never lied per se. He just didnt answer all the questions not put to him.


It's called "The Lie of Omission". Children use this defense commonly. Adults recognize it for the falsehood it is.

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At the end of the day whats done was done. And not accept responsibility?


He said other bad people perverted his work, didn't he?

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Then what's he doing with Mutant X? Why's he continuing to look out for New Mutants, stabilise them?


To continue his experiements, as he finally admits in S3.

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If he wasnt one who accepted liability, then he'd have never have left Genomex.


We don't really know the specifics of why he left Genomex. We only know he hung around for 20 years.

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If he was someone who thought it was okay to pin the blame on someone else, he'd have never have left Genomex. After all why leave, when you can just point a finger at Genomex and say 'Its all his fault!" He didnt do that.


"Genomex" is people. That is why when there are court cases involving corporate wrong doing, like Enron, it is individuals in charge who are tried and who are sentenced. Adam was in charge of the project, along with Breedlove. How is Adam resolved?

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We all have a past. But its what you do in the future that makes the difference. We all have capacity for change, for maturity, and for growth.


So, if you stole a mega-fortune from an armored truck in 1996, that's all in the past, which does not matter? Just go on and grow?

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However if you want more on a similar viewpoint - theres always the Masonesque board.


Interesting. Put up a link.

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I look forward to reading more from you here as well. Very nice debate that. Laters!


One must look past the labels.
PsiGen
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:49 pm Reply with quote
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Actually what I implied was that everyone can change. The nastiest scum on the earth who murdered four people or something, can one day turn around and save a little girl from drowning or something. Everything changes, everythings in constant evolution. Its this damn planet of ours.
Seriously, Brennan did grow, he did learn not to always look out for No 1

And I said I agreed that Adam knew what his work could be used for, and was blinded initially by ambition and greed. But then he stopped. He stopped. And as for the lie by omission part?

You've done something terrible. You want to put it right. Who's gonna trust you to do that if you come out and say what you're responsible. Noone.
We learn by our mistakes, at least we're meant to. But we're not always given a chance to make amends. Adam saw a way to make amends, and did what he had to to do it - and no the ends never justify the means, cos the end produced is determined by the means that brought it about. Omitting to tell something like that, didnt kill anyone - it was about building trust before letting something like that out of the bag.
Get what I mean?

As for the link, Im sorry - but owing to certain constraints, I shant be posting that link here. But if you google search it, you'll find it easily enough.

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Go for Wand
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:35 am Reply with quote
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Actually what I implied was that everyone can change. The nastiest scum on the earth who murdered four people or something, can one day turn around and save a little girl from drowning or something. Everything changes, everythings in constant evolution. Its this damn planet of ours.
Seriously, Brennan did grow, he did learn not to always look out for No 1


Actually, the character of most people is set about the time they are 30. We change very little after that.

So, if you pull the cute little blue-eyed blonde girl with pink ribbons in her hair and a puppy dog in her arms out of the path of a truck, that makes up for the four adults you beheaded, slowly, on videotaped?

I don't think one act atones for the other. I am not sure they have any relation to one another.

But Brennan didn't learn! That's the point! He never did anything to help any of his past victims, and he never expressed regrets--he just dismissed his crimes as only being perpetrated on the deserving! Nonsense! In 301, he picks the pocket of a complete stranger!

"It's this damn planet", huh? We choose how we conduct ourselves here. The damn planet does not tell us to rape, to pillage, to do murder.

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And I said I agreed that Adam knew what his work could be used for, and was blinded initially by ambition and greed. But then he stopped. He stopped. And as for the lie by omission part?


No, he didn't. He admitted in S3 that he continued working on the kids.

If Adam really, really wanted to make amends, he could have dedicated himself to real pediatric research and medicine. He created misery for over 1000 people and their families. Why couldn't he dedicate himself to doing positive work for the rest of his life? Because he didn't care about that. He cared about continuing his work--he trotted out some pretty words, and a lot of people have fallen for the glossy lie.

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You've done something terrible. You want to put it right. Who's gonna trust you to do that if you come out and say what you're responsible. Noone.


Actually, if you make a habit of owning up to your errors as soon as you notice them, your credibility soars, because people know what you do and say can be trusted as valid and true to the limits of your knowledge.

Quote:
We learn by our mistakes, at least we're meant to. But we're not always given a chance to make amends. Adam saw a way to make amends, and did what he had to to do it - and no the ends never justify the means, cos the end produced is determined by the means that brought it about. Omitting to tell something like that, didnt kill anyone - it was about building trust before letting something like that out of the bag.
Get what I mean?


I think I do, and it makes little sense. 1) Adam makes 'amends' by continuing his experiments (business as usual, except he's working out of his own place instead of Genomex) and using the kids for his "missions". 2) Lies are okay as long as no one croaks.

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As for the link, Im sorry - but owing to certain constraints, I shant be posting that link here. But if you google search it, you'll find it easily enough.


Ah, a mystery.
Blackpanther
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:57 pm Reply with quote
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Go for Wand wrote:

Quote:
As for the link, Im sorry - but owing to certain constraints, I shant be posting that link here. But if you google search it, you'll find it easily enough.


Ah, a mystery.


No, actualy the rules of this forum: devrtising is not permitted. You have been baned once and i should ban you again, but as long as you're being civil in discusions i'll let it go.

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Pan Zareta
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:10 pm Reply with quote
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Wouldn't it be great if one could share cold Cokes with everyone and make them smile? Very Happy
darkanger4u
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:18 pm Reply with quote
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Well...What can I say..many peoples discriminated Brennan and said that he is a stupid,and selfish,and a criminal...But Brennan also showed us the good part of his personality..He showed us that he can be smooth and sensible..and he showed loialty,and love...Why do you think that he is cruel because he is not..

And regarding Adam,well working in a sooo big corporation can be a risk...he made a mistake..but who doesn't?He is a human after all..

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Go for Wand
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:51 pm Reply with quote
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Well...What can I say..many peoples discriminated Brennan and said that he is a stupid,and selfish,and a criminal...


When someone is said to have discriminating judgment, it isn't an insult. It doesn't mean a negative judgment every time--it means the ability to look at something, and see it for what it is, not what is supposed to be, claimed to be, or what other people say it is.

People who do petty crime in between prison sentences are not intelligent.

People who go off on a group mission, then strike out on their own when it suits them are self-focused.

People who commit crimes and get caught are, well, criminals.

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But Brennan also showed us the good part of his personality..He showed us that he can be smooth and sensible..


Con artists are smooth.

Sensible? When he (finally) got around to questioning Adam's motivations?

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and he showed loialty,and love...Why do you think that he is cruel because he is not..


Loyalty I dealt with above. Love? Of himself, certainly.

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And regarding Adam,well working in a sooo big corporation can be a risk...


Adam wasn't a low-level worker. He was running the genetic experimentation. When you run a project, you are responsible.

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he made a mistake..but who doesn't?He is a human after all..


A life lived in the form of serial mistakes is only possible if you are abysmally stupid and never learn. People around us let a few mistakes go by, but anyone who makes a habit of them loses jobs, loses friends, loses any kind of coherent life because they are unreliable. Few adults of any intelligence live this way unless they are career con artists (a description which may or may not suit Adam).

One of the things emphasized in science training is the need for accurate documentation of one's work. At some point, Adam was trained also that it is allowable for one to refuse to do work considered unethical. If Adam really is as brilliant as claimed, he should have been able to walk out the door at Genomex, and into another job that would not compromise the ethics of a a researcher with a conscience, but instead he lingered at Genomex for 20 years. That is not the conduct of someone troubled by what they are doing--and we know he found out about what was going on immediately upon starting the job by his work with Ashlocke.
darkanger4u
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:50 pm Reply with quote
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Of himself?Ok,how do you call the feeling that he has for Shalimar? Ohh,I supose you will call it greed...You only see the bad things in him...You cannot see the good thing inside a human beeing..Support is necesarry sometimes to make the person change..but no you just have to blame him until death..

And answer me a question:Are you perfect?

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Go for Wand
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:48 am Reply with quote
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Of himself?Ok,how do you call the feeling that he has for Shalimar? Ohh,I supose you will call it greed...You only see the bad things in him...You cannot see the good thing inside a human beeing..Support is necesarry sometimes to make the person change..but no you just have to blame him until death..

And answer me a question:Are you perfect?


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Of himself?Ok,how do you call the feeling that he has for Shalimar? Ohh,I supose you will call it greed...


I call it animal lust.

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You only see the bad things in him...You cannot see the good thing inside a human beeing..


Nonsense. But I don't let a pretty face make me form illogical conclusions.

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Support is necesarry sometimes to make the person change..


I don't know what you are talking about. Brennan doesn't change. He just hangs out in Sanctuary, gets a roof and free food, and pretty much does as he pleases. This is transformation?

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You cannot see the good thing inside a human beeing..


I think the only good Brennan fans see is Victor Webster's face, and after that, they cease reflection upon what the character actually does.

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but no you just have to blame him until death..


If I stole cars, robbed banks, picked pockets, and did murder, I would not be stunned to have arrest warrants out for me, and convictions for those crimes would not shock me.

As an honest citizen, I find the expectation that someone deserves a pass on all the above because they are pretty is obscene. Predators like Brennan would murder any of us [you included, if you were convenient] for the change to buy a Coke out of a vending machine. Such is not the stuff of heroes.
Go for Wand
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:56 am Reply with quote
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Missed one.

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And answer me a question:Are you perfect?


Of course not.

But I am not a felon, either, nor have I had any encounter with the cops other than a traffic ticket years ago. Many years ago.

Honest citizens have nothing to fear from me, as they do from criminals like Brennan, who are the reason we have locks, surveillance cameras, etc.

My imperfections [procrastination, a difficulty learning languages] are not equivalent to Brennan's crimes, which are way, way, WAY past "imperfections".

Having a miserable time learning Latin is not equivalent to picking a pocket--it's not even illegal.
darkanger4u
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:56 pm Reply with quote
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ahh...let it go..you are just too frustrated to see beyod the facts...

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